Read
The earth is the Lord‘s and the fullness thereof,
the world and those who dwell therein,
for he has founded it upon the seas
and established it upon the rivers.
Psalm 24:1-2
Reflect
It seems that America has gone from pantheism to pan-atheism. An atheist is one who believes that God is in everything. On the other hand, the pan-atheist sees God in nothing.
A pantheist says that God is in a rock, God is in a tree, God is in the sunrise, God is in the sunset. It is true that His creation expresses Him, but God is not simply or totally present under the guise of a rock, cloud, tree, sunrise or sunset.
A pan-atheist talks about Mother Nature, luck and coincidence. God is an outside force rather than the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The Lord would have us see Him in all things as God the Father, the Creator; God the Son, the Redeemer; and God the Holy Spirit, the Sanctifier.
Reflection copyright © 2024 Doug DeBolt and Charles Fulton.
Theists all claim that their particular god/gods are the creator, often quoting things like this psalm and for Christians, Romans 1. Like all theists, curious how christians can’t agree on which god they want to claim exists and how not a single one of you can show that it exists at all. That you all also can’t do what jesus promises to his true followers shows that you have quite a problem.
Christians can’t agree about which god exists? I’m not sure which Christians you’ve been talking to, but every Christian I know believes that there is one true God, and it’s always the same God. There are different denominations and different ways of worshiping, but we all worship the same God.
You also spout a common logical fallacy in placing the burden of proof on us to prove God’s existence. Not proving he exists is not the same thing as Him not being there. I could just as easily ask you to definitively prove that He does not exist, and according to your logic, if you can’t prove absolute proof, it means He’s real. Best to avoid logical fallacies when making these kinds of arguments.
Now, I’m confused as to what you mean when you say that Christians can’t do what Jesus promises to His “true” followers. It would be good if you elaborated on that.
If you’re looking to pick a fight, you’ve come to the wrong place. That’s not what this is about. I’m sharing my faith, primarily with other believers, in the hopes that the things I say will help encourage them. If along the way I also stimulate someone’s curiosity about Jesus and spur them to dig deeper into Christianity, so much the better. But my supposed inability to meet someone’s burden of proof is not “quite the problem.” According to Hebrews 11:1, it’s the opposite of what true faith is: “Faith shows the reality of what we hope for; it is the evidence of things we cannot see.” (NLT)
Yes, Doug, chrsitains can’t agree on which god exists. Christians all have different claims about what morals their god wants. Each of you picks and chooses out of the bible what you want to claim your god wants you to follow, and surprise, you don’t all agree on what that is. So, we have christianis who are sure that their god has no problem with LGBT+ people, has no problem with divorces, etc, and we have Christians who are sure that their god hates LGBT+ people, will not allow divorces, etc.
You each believe that you have the only “true god” and not one of you can show this is the case.
Christians differ on quite a few things that are major dogma:
Free will vs. predestination
Who is saved
How someone is saved
How to interpret the bible
What heaven and hell are
What baptism does and how to do it.
What morals this god wants
all of which make complete differences in how your religion works.
As usual, it’s not a logical fallacy to know that the one who makes the positive claim “x exists” has the burden of proof. You would demand the same from any other theist who claims their god exists, Doug. If I say that Zeus exists, who has the burden of proof to show that it does? If you claim you have to show that Zeus doesn’t exist, then show me how that would work. How do you show something doesn’t exist?
That you find yourself unable to show your imaginary friend to exist is evidence that it does not exist. Nie to see you completely lie when claiming I’ve made logical fallacy arguments.
It’s nothing new how christains have no idea what is in their bible. Pastors and priests never mention those verses where jesus promises things to christains since they know that those promises never come true. It’s rather embarrassing when even the leader of the cult can’t do what the cult’s book promises.
“22 Jesus answered them, ‘Have[b] faith in God. 23 Truly I tell you, if you say to this mountain, “Be taken up and thrown into the sea”, and if you do not doubt in your heart, but believe that what you say will come to pass, it will be done for you. 24 So I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received[c] it, and it will be yours.” – Mark 11
“Go into all the world and proclaim the good news[d] to the whole creation. 16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved; but the one who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: by using my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes in their hands,[e] and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.’” Mark 16
“7 ‘Ask, and it will be given to you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 Is there anyone among you who, if your child asks for bread, will give a stone? 10 Or if the child asks for a fish, will give a snake? 11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him!” Matthew 7
“1 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; but if you do not, then believe me because of the works themselves. 12 Very truly, I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If in my name you ask me[e] for anything, I will do it.” John 14
“ 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. “ John 15
“13 Are any among you suffering? They should pray. Are any cheerful? They should sing songs of praise. 14 Are any among you sick? They should call for the elders of the church and have them pray over them, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 The prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise them up; and anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective. 17 Elijah was a human being like us, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18 Then he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain and the earth yielded its harvest.” James 5
Now, since christains can’t even agree if miracles still happen, what excuses will you offer on why you and your fellow Christians are complete failures?
I’m not picking a fight, I’m showing you how your claims are false. You share a false set of claims, and claim other theists are wrong when you have no evidence at all. You also make false claims about atheists, in your claim about how America has “gone” to “pan atheism”. (btw, you might want to correct your sentence: “It seems that America has gone from pantheism to pan-atheism. An atheist is one who believes that God is in everything. On the other hand, the pan-atheist sees God in nothing.”) You claim nonsense like “The truth is that, in 1900, Friedrich Nietzsche died and instantly found out that his unbelief was a lie; it was Nietzsche who was dead, and God who was and is alive!”
funny how no evidence for this claim at all. And all cults claim that those outside the cult are “fools”. Didn’t your messiah say something about not calling people fools? Oh right, he contradicted himself when the bible and he ignores his own advice.
That christains can’t even agree on what “faith” means is another indication on how this religion fails. Some claim that evidence is required. Some do not.
For someone who doesn’t believe in God, you sure do think you have Christianity nailed down. What you’re looking at as a difference in which God we believe in is really only a difference in theology. My best friend is a staunch Calvinist and I’m the exact opposite, but our core beliefs are exactly the same. We have no problem calling each other Christian brothers even though we differ on some theological points. The fact that Christians can get along with each other in spite of theological differences is actually a major positive for the faith. There have always been theological difference, but the one thing you missed is the one place where all Christians tend to unite: the Nicene Creed. That’s the core of my faith, and it’s the core of every Christian I know.
I know you say you’re not picking a fight, but you’re pretty combative. I’m sorry that you’ve had such a bad experience with Christianity, but whether you believe in God or not, I’ll keep you in my prayers. Blessings, and thanks for the discourse.
Since I was a christian and am quite familiar with all of the versions of Christianity, yep, I do have christianity nailed down. My lack of belief in the various gods christians worship doesn’t prevent me from knowing about them.
Theology is: ”
: the study of religious faith, practice, and experience
especially : the study of God and of God’s relation to the world” Merriam-webster
So differences in theology mean differences in your gods. Your friend beliefs in predestination, you belief in free will and both can’t exist together since they are contradictory positions. Your core beliefs aren’t the same at all. But nice false claim, Doug.
Curious how christians have murdered each other over these differences, so you calling each other “Christian brothers” is rather ridiculous. The only reason christians get along now is thanks to secular law preventing you from doing what you have done for centuries.
That you have to admit that “christians “tend” to unite under the Nicene creed, which means christians don’t agree about that either. You claiming that every christian you know agrees with you doesn’t mean all christians agree wtih you. Unsurprisingly, you only associate with christians who agree with you.
Showing how your claims are not true isn’t picking a fight. Claiming someone is “picking a fight” assumes that they don’t have a reason to do so. I certainly do have a reason since your beliefs cause real harm.
Doug, I’ve had literally hundreds of christians praying for me over the last 30+ years, each desperate for me to agree with their particular version of Christianity. You’ve all failed miserably, despite the promises in your bible. You then again lie and claim that I had a “bad experience with christianity” and that’s the only reason I find your claims to be false. It’s a shame you worship a god that hates lies and liars.
Why are you all failures, Doug? Is it because your god loves me as I am? Your god doesn’t think any of you self-professed christians are true believers? Or is it because your god doesn’t exist?
You get to choose.